On Thursday, before RO-Wine, I met up with Marcel Vulpoi at Gastrolab. He’s been feeling a bit weighed down lately, and since he’s shared his plans and projects with me over time (all of which have come to fruition so far, a rare feat, my friend!), he must have thought it was time for a confession. So, over a beer (for me) and a cola (for him), since we were still within working hours, we sat down for a chat. We’re sharing this conversation semi-censored, for the same reason Marinela didn’t interview him – to spare the more sensitive souls. Truth be told, the man has not just one major grief, but two or three, and a message to share: “Drop the micromanagement and the hate, get off your couches, and take advantage of the no-brainer opportunities at hand. Or we’ll spend eternity just amongst ourselves.” An atypical interview about the Romanian wine world today, as seen through the eyes of Marcel Vulpoi, both an accountant and an art and party enthusiast.
The Wine Bug, Installed and Accepted
First of all, congratulations on your newly opened hotel! It wasn’t that long ago you entered the wine world just to help a client with some branding and marketing. And now… a hotel!
It developed like a microbe, I don’t know how. In the five years since I joined Gramofon, Ie’ve gone from labels to a hotel, cabins, a pool, a spa, monthly parties, plus many other events. We’re also starting on edutainment, I hope it will be well received…
You’ve already announced an introduction to sparklings with Marinela Ardelean…
Yes, and more people will follow who, I think, have something to say. The concept is simple; I know it from math camps – when you get there, or like when you arrive at our place on a Friday, you have two hours of learning, Saturday morning another two hours, and Saturday afternoon you visit another winery to apply what you’ve learned. With Marinela, we’re doing sparkling wines, all kinds of sparkling wines, because you know I’m clueless, I don’t even know the difference between them all, with Franciacorta, with Prosecco, with everything. I think I’ll sign up for this course myself. The idea is for people to leave there 5% smarter or more informed, at least regarding wine.
As a new hotel owner, what frustrates you about wine tourism in Dealu Mare?
Yeah, for me, everything that happens in the wine industry is an enigma. It’s something mind-boggling, inexplicable. I’ve told you things over time… I have businesses in 6-7 fields, and this one, wine, is the most… peculiar. In terms of the opportunities that exist and the people who are effectively stuck in their projects. And because of that, they die slowly, that’s why there are so many sales and transactions, because they die slowly, people don’t want to reinvent themselves, I think it’s ultimately a lack of education.
The good part is that the quality of the wine has increased in the past 25 years.
Yes, yes, clearly. I don’t know, because I’m the ideal clueless guy, but from what connoisseurs say, and I mean both genuine and self-proclaimed connoisseurs, the wines have improved in quality, yes. I’ve heard stories from you and others about the tastings that used to be done, and yes, it seems many wines have improved in quality. It shows. But that’s the good part.
About hospitality and marketing
But people still built tasting rooms, places to visit, some have a tourist circuit, some occasionally have open gates’s days…
Occasionally, very rarely. Some also have a group size limit, which again, I find… I mean, man, you’re at the winery, you’re there, someone’s there, whether it’s Gigel the guard or Ionel the bottler, a person comes to your gate and…? Excuse me, but that’s not about the wine industry, it’s about human decency and hospitality. Someone knocks on your gate and says, “I’m here with my girlfriend, we saw the Gramofon Wine sign and wanted to visit”… And I’m supposed to say if there aren’t ten people, it’s not possible, go home, don’t waste our time. Going back, yes, there are a few projects, look, I was just talking to Marinela Ardelean about the accommodation units in the area, and it seems that now, with 40 places, we are already at the top, only to find out that no, Panciu has a serious hotel. I hadn’t heard anything about Panciu having accommodation until now. And it’s not that I don’t know as a winery owner, because that’s just bad, but not knowing as a potential client, and that’s very bad. How can you not promote something like that?
Maybe they’re already overbooked…
If they are overbooked, hats off to them! Yes, in that case, it makes sense, just like at my wine bar – if we’re overbooked and at full capacity, there’s no need for more advertising. But otherwise… Coming back, there are projects in the area, but they don’t connect. Like Cezar Ioan’s "Escape to Dealu Mare," which was fantastic. It died last year because we, the wineries, couldn’t get our act together and put someone in charge. Someone who would actually be paid for it. There is an association that handled it, but for a structure to exist, you need someone there daily. I joked with someone this morning that maybe we need to form our own association, us folks who also offer accommodation in the area. Another association, more fun, what the heck… The Hospitable Dealu Mare Association…
But it really is a necessity. Look, at our parties, we’re talking about 200-250 people. And from here to Ploiesti, there are no accommodations, which is mind-boggling…
And how many taxis are there in Ploiești, available at the time the party ends…
Yes, more than half of the people from the last party get in their cars and drive home. I even have a group of five people who come to absolutely every party at Gramofon, and no joke, it’s for real, before each party they play Russian roulette – who will drive? And there’s always one unlucky person among them… It’s simply not OK. The opportunities are there, you just need to get up and reach out.
The eternal lack of collaboration
And how do you explain this, if it can be explained? Are they not interested, are they satisfied with their level of business?
If we count, there are 5-6 wineries with accommodation and guesthouses, each with about 20-25 rooms…
Why don’t all the producers interested in accommodation team up and create a complex in Mizil, with your own cars to take people to the wineries…
I think it’s a fantastic idea, but I have the experience from the wine bar, which you know well. I made a flagship store for Dealu Mare with my own money and there are only 15 wineries there, out of the 40-45 that probably exist in Dealu Mare now, and I didn’t ask them to bring money from home. Just think about what it would be like to ask them to bring money from home to do a joint project. How do you think that would turn out?
We return to the old issue of lack of collaboration, locally, regionally, nationally…
First of all, let’s clarify, there are two or three wineries with 400 hectares, but the rest of us, let’s admit, we’re drops in the bucket. We’re next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. You can’t say we’re in competition, if someone tells me they’re competing with Gramofon, I’d say, great, I’m flattered. But maybe some see themselves as competitors… What amuses me is that even the connoisseurs can’t stand each other, which is quite funny!
Where there are three, there are two cliques…
Yeah, stuff like that, if one comes, the other won’t. I’d organize an event, I swear, I’d fund it myself, the Great Reconciliation at Gramofon. Come on, everyone, fight it out here, I’ll set up a boxing ring if needed, both connoisseurs and producers… It’s not that the producers can’t stand each other, they just don’t do things together, everyone does their own thing.
But why? Why? Are they proud of their achievements and feel they don’t need to share the glory?
I’d like to say that’s the reason. If there was someone we all looked up to, saying they’re a God, that e all want to be like them… And whoever gets there first becomes a demigod or GGod themselves. But everyone has their own business model, different niches, different clients, and so on. And there’s enough room under the sun for everyone. I think the reason is micromanagement. I’ve said it before, and I’ve got a bit of hate for it, and now I think I’ll take even more, it’s poor management, a complete lack of vision, and micromanagement. People waste entire days of their lives doing things that aren’t part of a manager’s or entrepreneur’s job description. Like if I went to Gabi (Lacureanu, ed.) and said, don’t buy substance X, buy substance Y, it’s 7% cheaper? We don’t hire good people to tell them what to do, we hire them to tell us what to do. Here, managers and entrepreneurs suffer from syndrome 394. Instead of thinking about strategy, the manager gets lost in filling out form 394, doing grunt work, and then says there’s no time for anything else. And for this type of manager, it’s the perfect alibi. “I’d do it, I’d handle accommodation, I’d make a sales strategy, but I don’t have time, buddy! I have to check the substances, see if the wine has fermented…” It’s like the cave myth, they sit in a grove and because they don’t rise above it, they imagine it’s a big forest.
And there’s another thing: the desperation to get rid of the wine.
An 18 RON wine offer makes it an 18 RON wine
Why? Have stocks increased, sales decreased?
No, but they want to get rid of the wine at any cost. You’ve seen it yourself now, during Easter, half of the Romanian wineries had offers like 5+1, 1+1, 7+15… It’s not your job as a manager, and I’m convinced these decisions come from a very high level in the organization, if not the highest. The desperation to get rid of the wine will have huge repercussions in the future. If you offer a wine for 18 lei, it remains an 18 lei wine in the customer’s mind. What I say, that if it doesn’t sell, we’ll drink it ourselves, is no joke. That’s what I do! If it doesn’t sell, I’d rather donate it to a charity event or be a partner in an event than sell it for 15 lei. Obviously, this is my opinion as an accountant.
But even that’s not necessarily a solution, right? If you partner somewhere, it immediately becomes known, and the next day you have people lining up for freebies in exchange for a logo on an invitation. And if you don’t give it, you’re the bad, cheap guy.
Correct. That’s why you need to choose your partners very carefully. I also get tens of thousands of requests for free wine. But some are okay, either because you believe in the cause or for marketing purposes because it’s beneficial. You reach potential valuable clients, they like the wine, and next year you don’t have it unsold. But don’t sell it for 15 lei because it’s like giving it away for free. That covers the cork, the bottle, the label, and that’s about it. If it hits the supermarket at 15 lei, it means it left you at 10-12.
About the next generation
Alright. By my calculations, we’re approaching a mature market. There’s diversification, we have a somewhat established class of consumers, still small, admittedly, who know what to choose from the shelf or ask the department manager. But they’re aging. And when we retire, they’ll ask: you were the rock generation, you had the power, what did you do? How did you prepare the next generations? We lack the power of example; our children don’t drink wine; they drink cocktails and energy drinks…
Yes and no… Who educates them?
Not their parents, the first generation before whom the world of wine opened up…
You know how it is with parents and education? I was just talking to someone about the inheritance of family businesses, and it’s more about inheriting family values. If you don’t spend time with your child, don’t explain things to them, and don’t have a close relationship, whatever you do, the child will do the opposite. Children see the business as their enemy, there are many examples, even in the wine world. Why? Because mom or dad, instead of spending time with me, are busy with the business. You don’t bring them close, you say: I’ll spend time with the child tomorrow. It’s the same in any family, no matter how much wine you drink, if you don’t have a close relationship with the child, they won’t be interested; on the contrary, they’ll blame you for hanging out with friends at tastings, for hopping from bar to bar, they won’t care about wine; they’ll drink vodka, whisky, and tequila shots. So it’s an education issue, but not just from the family, as you see, it’s more complicated… And who provides education in the wine industry? Tell me, so I understand, because I don’t see it…
Theoretically, there are tastings, samplings…
Who with whom? Us among ourselves. Let’s go to any wine launch, you pick any from this year, if you don’t see the same 50% of people, I’ll shoot myself. So-called opinion leaders, I don’t even know their backgrounds, now they’re all wine-something, all wine experts. Where from? Then let’s create our own group of those who know women. From where? Well, we’ve encountered a few in this life. If you’ve tasted 15 wines, ten of them for free, now you say you have that FB page or Insta profile, organize tastings, and want me to give you free wine. Seriously?
Maybe you know, I brought 120 of my students to the winery as part of a project, to explain how wine is made, the process, with a tasting of five wines paid for by me. Do you know what shocked me the most? Over 100 bottles of wine were sold that day. When I finished the presentation, I said: that’s it, kids, thanks, we’re done, you can go! And they all asked where to buy it. You don’t have to buy anything, I didn’t bring you here to sell my wine, God forgive me. But they insisted, because one liked one wine, another liked another, they didn’t know them because the wine doesn’t reach them. Because at all the events, it’s always the same people, and no one goes to find and discover their audience. How many wine courses are there in Romania? Four? With 20 people per series? I think even crochet courses have more! And vice versa: take a young person of 21-24 years old. Why would they go to a wine course? I work with young people, I see their concerns… What do you tell them to convince them?
That they become the cool person in the group if they know how to choose wine at a restaurant.
You need to make them understand that it’s a career opportunity. The problem in hospitality is that 70% of employees see their job as temporary, not as a chance to earn money. I have waiters, both at the wine bar and at the Palace, some of them earn more than accountants. You can have a very decent life, but you need to make a profession out of it.
A possible solution
And how do you see a way out of this situation? We say they are superficial and full of Tik-Tok, but they look there for entertainment. If you go with wine on Tik-Tok, don’t you risk not being taken seriously?
It depends on how you present it, like with art. Do you think people come to my wine bar and the Palace to see paintings? Maybe 10%. Do you think anyone came for the first time saying they heard Vulpoi has some Chirnoaga there? I’m curious how many will say at the hotel that they want to stay in the Ilfoveanu room. It’s about how you package it. My goal in life is not to educate you, you didn’t come for education, you came to have a good time, to relax. But! But I saw you looking at that blue there, you know, that’s Sorin Adam. By the way, you can search to see how much it sold for. I have a bunch of people who learned about art, but in a friendly context, not force-fed. People wrote in online reviews things like "In Romania, wine bars are better than museums." I’m sure the tourist who wrote it went to both the museum and the wine bar. And they liked the wine bar more because they had a glass of wine alongside…
So one of the solutions to bring in more tourists would be to give them a glass of wine when they go to the museum.
Why not? That’s what I want to do at the winery, plus a pool. There’s this synergy between music, art, and wine. And theater, if we talk about Godot, where people come for the theater, not to drink wine. But they see the wine, taste it, and get attached to it. What’s the industry’s response? We buy coolers for restaurants, give bonuses to waiters for corks, put glasses on tables, all from the winery’s money, planters… Maybe soon we’ll be buying them tables, we’ll be opening restaurants ourselves, the Romanian wineries. Corkscrews, gift boxes, listing fees. The dumbest idea in management is to think you can solve it with money.
And it artificially inflates the price of wine…
It’s a form of bribery. My definition of bribery is that it’s a contractual relationship between two idiots. One idiot who gives because they don’t know how to solve the problem otherwise, and one who asks because they don’t know how to make money otherwise. And the customer pays for everything. That’s the harsh truth. Only a bad manager believes they can solve it with money. And what’s amusing is that every year there’s a winery that raises prices, always raising the level of the bribe. From the sign at the entrance to the waiter’s underwear, soon we’ll all have subscriptions to Jolidon.
Competitive export, the business stays at home
So export remains the only solution?
Export might seem like the only solution, but it’s also fraught with challenges. We participated in trade fairs for a few years, and not seeing it as lost money but as a fee paid for a lesson. In Taipei, everyone marveled at how amazing the wines were. But when they heard prices of 15-17 euros, they couldn’t believe it. They said that there, all wines sell for 3, maybe 5 euros. And when we heard that even Romanian wines were priced that low, it was a shock. I don’t know if there’s a clear market analysis on this, but it seems like we’re fooling the Romanians if we’re selling containers to China for 3 euros while selling them locally for 8-10 euros. I try to answer these questions for myself. We aim to be competitive in exports, but what about the domestic market? It’s frustrating that whenever someone tries to do something, whatever, they face a lot of hate. It’s not just hate without alternative solutions, it’s disinterested hate, in 70-80% of the cases. It’s not about morality. It’s like hating someone because they have a beard and you can’t grow one. Like, damn, he can grow a beard, and I can’t, let’s hate him for that.
When I first started learning about the wine world, someone said something smart: you can’t just say a wine is bad. It’s not like beer, where you can produce dozens of batches a year and one might turn out bad. With wine, you work all year and it only comes out once. And I see, day after day, people bashing wines, saying it’s bad, tastes like sand, it’s only good for cleaning rust… If you’re not a god in the field, better keep quiet if you have nothing nice to say. Shut the F up. Did anyone ask you?
Photo credit: Gramofon Wine
